tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5908220527644712259.post6426264474320238355..comments2024-03-27T00:12:52.640-07:00Comments on International Socialism: We Must Embrace Women’s Gains on Responding to Sexual AssaultInternational Socialismhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15884867913095807179noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5908220527644712259.post-60899926076966858952019-02-20T02:30:40.258-08:002019-02-20T02:30:40.258-08:00I visit your blog regularly.
London prostitutionsI visit your blog regularly.<br /><a href="https://www.lovely-london-escorts.co.uk/blog" rel="nofollow">London prostitutions</a><br />Piotr LAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03882320988976372331noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5908220527644712259.post-46446740543571510912013-03-29T17:15:16.149-07:002013-03-29T17:15:16.149-07:00Steve, I objected to you equating separatism with ...Steve, I objected to you equating separatism with feminism. ISO in the past defined feminism as intrinsically reformist and separatist. My question stands, do you believe feminism equals separatism?<br />Why is it important? Maybe you were not aware that British SWP leaders called feminists all sorts of names?<br /><br />"When a political party fails to engage with, and embrace, a central democratic struggle such as the rise of women on a world scale, the consequences are disastrous, as is shown by what has happened in the SWP. It is especially egregious when the party is Trotskyist, since one of Trotskyism’s core principles is seeking to understand the relationship between the unfinished democratic tasks of our time and the socialist revolution.<br /><br />But when it comes to feminism, the top leadership of the SWP has apparently been asleep at the wheel. They seem not to have grasped that the feminist struggles of women and men have shaken the longstanding assumptions of male domination in both domestic and public life. Everything we have seen points to the fact that this failure went hand-in-hand with the emergence of an organizational structure characterized by a bureaucratic method that served to perpetuate a male-dominated internal culture. This insulated the party from the changes that were taking place in the world—in this case the rising of women through three successive waves of the feminist movement rooted in the entrance of women into the world workforce.<br /><br />To put it another way, the failure of an organization like the SWP to appreciate the importance of feminism programmatically creates a fertile soil for the sort of sexist culture in a left party that perpetuates and defends itself just as does any patriarchal and bureaucratic institution of capitalism.<br /><br />What has happened to the SWP over the last several months shows conclusively that a revolutionary party will rise or fall to the degree that it addresses the key political issues of its time. In this case, the issue is the right of all women to be free of sexual violence and harassment. The inability of SWP leaders to deal with this issue compassionately, democratically, and with an understanding of the corrupting qualities of male privilege is a leadership failure of profound proportions." <br />(excerpt from Freedom Socialist party statement: Feminism and the crisis in the British Socialist Workers Party.) <br />http://www.socialism.com/drupal-6.8/?q=node/2138 <br /><br />dbseattlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08299353897194263739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5908220527644712259.post-34245336876777639572013-03-28T12:25:01.538-07:002013-03-28T12:25:01.538-07:00Insults don't advance the debate. In DB's ...Insults don't advance the debate. In DB's opinion it seems anyone who uses the term " women's liberationist" rather than "Feminist" is someone with " backwards attitudes". Seems like point scoring on semantics. If all Feminism means is " for women's equality or liberation" then of course all real Marxists are Feminists. However , there are various strands of Feminism, some of which Marxists will agree with more than others. " The goal should be to form integrated struggles for women's liberation..." is still true today. It is just as much the responsibility of men as of women to fight for women's liberation---though of course women will be in the lead on this fight. It is the responsibility of Marxists to win as many as possible to the fight for women's liberation and to convince working class men that the liberation of women is a CLASS question, not just a question for women to be concerned with. It is only when the working class as a whole takes up questions of oppression as CENTRAL to the advancement of the working class that we begin to build the unity necessary to overthrow capitalismSteve Leighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04702647242558540606noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5908220527644712259.post-27612722157654256142013-03-27T15:01:13.471-07:002013-03-27T15:01:13.471-07:00point well taken, insert "backwards attitudes...point well taken, insert "backwards attitudes" instead.dbseattlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08299353897194263739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5908220527644712259.post-38976796383437945622013-03-26T07:41:23.331-07:002013-03-26T07:41:23.331-07:00don't insult Neanderthals by labeling them mis...don't insult Neanderthals by labeling them misogynist!Entdinglichunghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06100559259654777563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5908220527644712259.post-34466229058247945622013-03-26T00:47:29.683-07:002013-03-26T00:47:29.683-07:00Steve,
Is this the same Steve Leigh from Seattle I...Steve,<br />Is this the same Steve Leigh from Seattle ISO who posted on an antiwar listserve in 2008 that “We are Marxists and therefore Women’s Liberationists, but since we are not separatists, we are not ‘Feminists.’ ” <br /> “The goal should be to form integrated struggles for women’s liberation, not to glorify separatism.”<br />If you've since changed your attitude towards feminism I'd love to hear it. If not, I wouldn't have much confidence in you having a clue if a woman in your organization was sexually mistreated. <br />Such neanderthal attitudes towards feminists/feminism are a big part of the problem facing the SWP in Britain as well.<br /><br />Doug Barnes<br />Freedom Socialist Party<br />socialism.com<br /><br />dbseattlehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08299353897194263739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5908220527644712259.post-90890705237042343982013-03-25T04:54:57.737-07:002013-03-25T04:54:57.737-07:00I am sure the SWP CC did. I assume this is why the...I am sure the SWP CC did. I assume this is why they put in place a process that would ensure their preferred verdict.Rosaluxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15456701989745065344noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5908220527644712259.post-4954761637394281432013-03-24T07:13:09.057-07:002013-03-24T07:13:09.057-07:00Yeah I think a lot of people thought about that.
...Yeah I think a lot of people thought about that.<br /><br />Speaking for myself, as I know comrades' opinions vary on this point, whether or not W was innocent had sweet FA to do with my decision to leave the party; the utterly abysmal response of the CC to a serious allegation of rape was PLENTY to be going on with.Penny Schenkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09605863435290871568noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5908220527644712259.post-90420870852141933952013-03-24T05:08:57.083-07:002013-03-24T05:08:57.083-07:00For the rape allegation even to get to the DC, one...For the rape allegation even to get to the DC, one of three things must have happened:<br /><br />1 - rape was committed<br />2 - some dodgy and abusive conduct took place, none of which could ultimately be strictly defined as rape<br />3 - nothing untoward went on and W completely made the whole thing up<br /><br />None of us know whether what happened was 1, but for Delta to be exonerated as the CC would apparently like we'd have to believe it was 3. I don't find that remotely credible, particularly given the obvious inappropriateness of the procedure used to determine Delta's innocence.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07009879034507926661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5908220527644712259.post-76336992304967253922013-03-24T03:28:54.772-07:002013-03-24T03:28:54.772-07:00The point is that the SWP was not competent to dec...The point is that the SWP was not competent to decide, and now any evidence there might have been has been corrupted. You certainly don't get a bunch of the accused mates to decide. Not even the bourgeois 'justice' system is that stupid.<br /><br />But, as has been pointed out many times, as socialists we begin by believing the woman, and work from there.<br /><br />That is the line taken even in Socialist Worker -- but, in every case other than this.Rosa Lichtensteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04387902582543223474noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5908220527644712259.post-72283238649422074212013-03-24T02:22:57.604-07:002013-03-24T02:22:57.604-07:00What if "Comrade Delta" is innocent of t...What if "Comrade Delta" is innocent of the charges? Has anybody thought about that?Philip Keatonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12178904685412349793noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5908220527644712259.post-1675742416011223242013-03-23T22:57:04.989-07:002013-03-23T22:57:04.989-07:00Revolutionary organizations need not conduct forma...Revolutionary organizations need not conduct formal rape trials. All they can do is determine if a member has violated fundamental socialist principles---one of which is never contributing to the oppression of women and other oppressed groups. Such a violation occurs far before a legally defined rape has taken place. Once it is clear that a violation has occurred, the organization must take it extremely seriously and deal with it appropriately--from education if naïve ignorance was the problem, to warning, to censure to suspension to expulsion. Too many people in this debate have taken the position that if " no rape was proven" then all is well and the accused comrade should be allowed to continue to represent the Party in coalition work. Even if no rape occurred ( and even the disputes committee only said it was "unproven"), this should only be the beginning of the inquiry. Especially in the case of a national leader , a much higher standard should be applied than just resting at " allegation unproven". The fact that this was not the case, shows a fundamental problem with the SWP's approach to women's oppression. It is always easier to fight oppression externally than inside the organization itself. A real test is whether it is confronted and dealt with appropriately internally. It is clear that the SWP failed that test.Steve Leighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04702647242558540606noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5908220527644712259.post-8300610415968605422013-03-23T18:21:59.848-07:002013-03-23T18:21:59.848-07:00I don't disagree that the SWP has played a rol...I don't disagree that the SWP has played a role that is overbearing on other groups at times, but two of your signatories benefited from such intervention when they were in a minority position in the IS in the 1980s. They were enthusiastic pushers for the ISO's expulsion from the IST. They only became critical of these practices once they were out and in fact the IS started to make decisions that probably went against the SWPs own perspectives after they were off the leadership. Your portrayal also doesn't fit the whole complexity of the ISO expulsion. The ISO also intervened aggressively in another organization (the Greeks), which was the direct cause of the expulsion. This was not just an instance of the SWP getting its way and having the ISO kicked out of the tendency. A lot of organizations were upset and worried of the precedence that the ISO was setting. I certainly won't claim the SWP was innocent on all this but this was not just an example of one group bullying the other.<br /><br />The IST is a pretty loose group and there are all sorts of disagreements between organizations. Sure the SWP probably pushes its weight around but it isn't like they give dictates to the operations of the other groups. To suggest otherwise I think feeds into a caricature that I am sure Paul and Abbie try to portray today (and ironically one they helped make a reality when they were on the steering committee). And as I have suggested elsewhere, if negative organizational practices from the SWP carried down to the IS in Canada, your two co-signatories were large reasons of that happening. <br /><br />Questions though...my sense is that many of the debates that need to happen inside the SWP are going to appear in the pages of the ISJ in the next two years (one hopes). Shouldn't we be encouraging exposure to these debates and maybe even participating in them? In that sense I hope the IS continues to distribute the ISJ.<br /><br />Question 2: Since this incident has happened, has the IS invited SWP speakers to its events? Obviously we can go to the past examples of such a thing, but I don't think we can look back at these instances and judge them by what we know now. I have a sense that such invitations may not be happening in the near future until the SWP gets its own house in order, but either way to make that one of your reasons of concern doesn't really make sense until it happens.<br /><br />Question 3: you think breaking off from the IST would really be helpful? The SWP is only one group. Maybe the strongest and loudest but I also have a feeling their moral leadership inside the tendency has probably suffered after this last incident. If anything the IST may be a more level playing field now and maybe there is opportunities for IS Canada to try to push back through internal structures of the tendency. <br /><br />I think this would be much more helpful than resigning from the IS. While I believe that you are being sincere in your reasons to leave (although I still think it is a mistake) I don't share that evaluation for the others who have signed on. They wanted to leave for a long time and have used the shit happening in the UK to make their motives much more pristine than they actually are.The Reading Lawyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12215564945059615664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5908220527644712259.post-23825477508528079112013-03-23T17:25:01.184-07:002013-03-23T17:25:01.184-07:00I have been to two national conventions and two Ma...I have been to two national conventions and two Marxisms. I was one of the leading members in Vancouver, have spoken at numerous IS events and organized the second branch in Vancouver. I have also written numerous articles for canadas Socialist Worker. I agree the IS in Canada is not the SWP, and is a much healthier organization. Many of the members are fabulous activists. I was one of the two that voted for a motion at the national convention for a letter of concern. After the British SWP's special convention I felt the silence of the organization was a violation of principle for me. I still plan to work closely with the IS but I cannot reconcile being a member of an organization that distributes the ISJ, invites SWP speakers to its events and is a member of the IST. The reality of the IST is that the SWP being the most dominant member runs the organization. If it were true that groups were fully autonomous the SWP would not have tried to intervene in the ISO and then expel them from the IST. I did not believe a factional struggle in the IS would have been productive. My hope is that my letter will Influence people in the SWP and move the Canadian IS CC out of silence. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14868876121969591076noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5908220527644712259.post-76356054811509662712013-03-23T16:45:29.573-07:002013-03-23T16:45:29.573-07:00Ian, I think you present a reasonable analysis of ...Ian, I think you present a reasonable analysis of how revolutionary organizations have and should deal with incidents of sexual violence inside an organization. I am also of the belief that the SWP handled this incredibly badly, and your criticisms are pertinent to how we move away from problematic practices. <br /><br />That said, I have no idea what this has to do with the Canadian International Socialists whatsoever. The most leading members of the organization are some of the most prominent voices and activists inside the women's movement, people who were at the heart of the movement that won abortion rights in Canada in the 1980s. Ironically, two of your co-signatories were sectarian to that movement and if not for more level and open voices in the organization, the IS would not have played such a prominent role in advancing women's rights in Canada.<br /><br />Is it because no letter was written to the SWP expressing concern about what happened? That is fair, and maybe something more vocal should have been expressed. However, I must say one of the worst habits in the International Socialist Tendency (and the SWP is the biggest culprit) is of every organization writing to each other criticizing this and that and not respecting the fact that organizations are entitled to determine their own fate. In the SWP there was and probably still is a large opposition to the decision of the leadership and will hopefully continue to try to win the organization away from its worst habits and expanding the democratic culture of the SWP. That is their struggle and I respect and support them in their efforts. Maybe a letter from the Canadian IS would have helped the opposition, maybe not. That is a debatable point, but we also, as socialists, hold up a principle of self-determination and being interventionist into others affairs is always a questionable practice and I have doubts how productive it would have been.<br /><br />At the end of the day, the IS in Canada is not the same organization as the SWP. The IS is not the face of the SWP in Canada. Sister organizations are still autonomous and have different internal practices, analyses of how to intervene in things, and approaches to the movements. If you were a more active member of the IS, which as far as I know you were a member on paper only and never participated in any national convention or attended the Marxism conference (correct me if I am wrong) maybe you would have seen that and realized that sometimes things are not as horrible as others tells you they are.The Reading Lawyerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12215564945059615664noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5908220527644712259.post-1259963605457154662013-03-23T11:55:58.981-07:002013-03-23T11:55:58.981-07:00Er..., you might want to rethink that title, comra...Er..., you might want to rethink that title, comrades.Rosa Lichtensteinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04387902582543223474noreply@blogger.com